Quartus 10.0 lpm modules

[Altera_Forum]

Hi all, 

this has been treated here and that. Also a pool has been set by tentner (Should the lpm_counter and lpm_add_sub-megafunctions, etc. return to the MegaWizard?) The release notes of QII 10.0 state: "The MegaWizard Plug-In Manager no longer supports the following megafunctions: ALT3PRAM, ALTACCUMULATE, ALTGXB, ALTSHIFT_TAPS, ALTSQRT, LPM_ABS, LPM_ADD_SUB, .... You can compile designs that include the above megafunctions in the Quartus II software version 10.0, but you cannot create new instances or edit existing variations of these megafunctions."   The first questions are: If the LPM_ADD_SUB and similar modules are no more available. Which should be the usage of the schematic editor according to Altera ideas? Is there a plan to remove the schematic editor from future QuartusII releases? I don't see the utility of a schematic editor where you can only instantiate basic AND, OR and NOT gates and complex components such as FP units (the ALT megacores). Which are your ideas?    Further there things that are not clear to me. It seems the the above LPM components are still in the Megafunction libraries and it is possible to instantiate them, even if the Megawizard doesn't show them.  This is an example of usage of the LPM_ADD_SUB I created a new Project in QuartusII 10.0 web edition.  The chosen device is a StratixII. When I go through the symbol list in a newly created schematic file I can still see the LPM_ADD_SUB, LPM_COUNTER etc. I can also place them on the schematic. The difference with 9.1 is that the Launch Megawizard plug in checkbox is not enabled. In QII 9.1 the placing the component automatically launches the Megawizard plug in Manager. I can set bus width, pipelining, ADD/SUB etc. At the end I get a nice symbol that respects my whishes.. After "creating an HDL design file from current file" and added a test bench. The modelsim simulation works correctly. The LE occupation is 8ALUTs in arithmetic mode and 24 pins. In QII 10.0 the LPM_ADD_SUB component is not targeted to my wishes but a table is present on the right upper corner where the LPM parameters are shown. I can also change them. As example I can state that some I/O are not used in my design. The names disappear from the symbol but the signal lines are still there. I can create an HDL file from the circuit.   The problems I found are the following: 1) Setting the parameters is cumbersome. Column width is too narrow ti read what you're going to select. Further for certain parameters it is not clear what to write. For pipeline, as example, I set "NO" but this resulted in an error. It wants 0 if you want a circuit without pipelining.  2) The generated Verilog HDL cope recalls an empty lpm_add_sub0 module. I delete the call.  After these steps the project has been synthesized providing the same results as QII 9.1 and the ModelSim simulation is also working. The above described project is added to this   So my last question is: Why the LPM_ADD_SUB is still instantiable if not supported by Megawizard?    Thx and sorry for the length of the post.

[Altera_Forum]

No replies. 

If the LPM_xxx compnents attract so little attention I do understand Altera for eliminating them. :)

[Altera_Forum]

i wouldn't say the LPMs generate little attention. there were a decent number of threads on the forum and i have to imagine people have filed service requests saying that these functions were useful. maybe Altera will reconsider?

[Altera_Forum]

Here are the links to the polls (simulator and MegaWizard) again. If a sufficient number of people vote, it will be a reasonable argument for Altera, hopefully: 

 megawizard poll (http://www.alteraforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24291)  simulator poll (http://www.alteraforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24415)  I have the same opinion than you. Maybe the problem is that "schematic design" sounds "unprofessional". In fact, I have to admit that I have seen many bad schematic designs from beginners. But I think, if the same people do a VHDL or Verilog design, it would be bad, too.  For people who are used to the schematic design flow, it is really a nightmare what Altera did... (esp. because the new GUI may be a big step internally in Quartus, but gives no clear benefit to Windows users, only quite some restrictions and new bugs.) Let's hope for the next service pack...  Thomas

[Altera_Forum]

Hi tentner, 

I also cited your poll in the initial post of the thread.   In my opinion the really unclear point is: Which is the meaning of having a schematic editor where I can instantiate basic AND, OR and NOT gates and, with a huge jump, FP additions and complex components? Without the LPM modules there's a huge gap in between the two kinds of components.   Perhaps I'm wrong and the LPM modules are not so important. If so, I hope that someone is able to explain me which is the correct way of describing binary adders using the schematic editor.

[Altera_Forum]

Hi nplttr, 

 the lpm-functions (with the huge parameter-blocks) you described is in fact the "old" way that was standard about 10 years ago. Then came the MegaWizard-plug-in-manager with the much nicer solution. Now it's gone again...  Personally, I am staying at 9.1sp2 for the moment and hoping that this will be "fixed" in the next release.  Another option would be to create some small VHDL-entities with the most common adders and counters. But this would not look as nice as the MegaWizard-Symbols, would not help to maintain or reuse old designs, and would be quite some work...  Regards,  Thomas

[Altera_Forum]

Hi, 

 The feedback has been loud and clear, and Altera plans to add back most of the LPM mega functions in V10.1.   You may want to debate in this forum the functions you consider more important, allowing Altera to prioritize accordingly.  -davka

[Altera_Forum]

--- Quote Start ---  Hi,  The feedback has been loud and clear, and Altera plans to add back most of the LPM mega functions in V10.1.    --- Quote End ---    That are great news :)     --- Quote Start ---   You may want to debate in this forum the functions you consider more important, allowing Altera to prioritize accordingly.  -davka  --- Quote End ---    The most important for me are: 1. lpm_counter 2. lpm_add_sub 3. lpm_compare 4. lpm_mux  (I hope I got the names right...) I think some people are also using lpm_constant frequently (I personally have my own solution for that).  Regards,  Thomas

[Altera_Forum]

Hi, 

 I'm also missing the lpm modules in the latest Quartus Version.  I was looking foreward to 10.0 in order to be able to use Quartus under windows 7 but no, I'm very disapointed because of the missing support for the LPM modules.  Our main project is now about 8 years old and it is still maintained and improved. The last big step for us was the porting from Nios to Nios II which now works nice. And now, again with another Quartus Version, I'm not able to use the known and proven functionality as I was used to be. This is very anoying to me that with every new Quartus Version not only new device support is added but also some functionalities are changed completely or some components are totally removed.  I myself also miss the lpm_constant module because I liked to use this in combination with the in system memory content editor. This was the initial thing I wanted to do with my brand new Quartus 10 on windows 7 but it is not working anymore.  I'm very disappointed! I would like to have the lpm_constant back in 10.1, too.  Regards, Maik

[Altera_Forum]

Hi all, 

 where did you get these information? Is there a link where to read the planned modifications to future QII releases?   Further, is ther any info on when QII 10.1 should arrive?   Thx

[Altera_Forum]

QII 10.1 is expected in Q4: 

 http://www.altera.com/corporate/news_room/releases/2010/products/nr-arria-gx-gz.html

[Altera_Forum]

In my humble opinion the most important functions are: 

lpm_add_sub lpm_counter lpm_shift_reg   Please note that  lpm_shift_reg has not been cited in previous posts.

[Altera_Forum]

--- Quote Start ---  Hi,  I'm also missing the lpm modules in the latest Quartus Version.  I was looking foreward to 10.0 in order to be able to use Quartus under windows 7 but no, I'm very disapointed because of the missing support for the LPM modules.  Our main project is now about 8 years old and it is still maintained and improved. The last big step for us was the porting from Nios to Nios II which now works nice. And now, again with another Quartus Version, I'm not able to use the known and proven functionality as I was used to be. This is very anoying to me that with every new Quartus Version not only new device support is added but also some functionalities are changed completely or some components are totally removed.  I myself also miss the lpm_constant module because I liked to use this in combination with the in system memory content editor. This was the initial thing I wanted to do with my brand new Quartus 10 on windows 7 but it is not working anymore.  I'm very disappointed! I would like to have the lpm_constant back in 10.1, too.  Regards, Maik  --- Quote End ---    I agree, the lpm_constant was an extremely useful feature (I don't even use the altera graphical methods). Does anyone know what we can use in its place for simply inserting data via jtag in its absence?

[Altera_Forum]

Hi to everybody,  

I wanted to give my contribution, I begun to use the Alters products mainly for the possibility to realize the projects using schematic entry.  I find schematic editor very useful and I realize the most greater part of my projects with this method, I hope that in future Altera will implement this functionality back again.