eye strain

[CNeub]

hello,

I have a Notebook with Intel Core i7 4710 - Intel Graphics 4600 and external Nvidia Gforce GTX 850M for about 2 weeks now. I connect the Notebook on two different places per HDMI with nearly three year old lg monitors. With my old Notebook (Intel Core2Duo and Nvidia Gforce 9500GT) I had not any problems with this two monitors. However when I connect one of the two monitors with my new Notebook I get eye strain and headache. Of course I use the right resolution FullHD and tried out different brigthness and contrast adjustments in intel graphic properties. OS is Windows 7 Prof x64 and the newest drivers are installed. Version:15.33.22.64.3621

Nearly two months ago I purchased an other Notebook with Intel Core i7 4700MQ - Intel Graphics 4600 and Nvidia Gforce GT755 M. I had the same problem there and so I sent it back, because I thought that the Notebook has an defect. I tried out Windows 7 and Windows 8 and had the same eye problems in the two different OS.Now I do not really know what the problem exactly is, because I have these problems with two different Notebooks on two different external LG Monitors and the integrated Displays of the Notebooks. But I thinkt the problem is the Intel HD 4600. Maybe that there is something wrong with the driver.Do you have any ideas about this? Couse I can't purchase and send back new Notebooks all the time.

Sorry for my bad english

[MJana1]

Hello,

I wanted to share my findings so far. I have made some progress, but it is far from done yet. After going to many doctors, neurologists, MRI checking for brain tumors etc., I have found an optometrist, which in its proper form is a discipline that also

checks how your eyes cooperate, how fast you can accomodate (focus) etc. No ophtalmologist will probably do these tests, nor do they often even know that optometry as a discipline exists. I have been found to have a hidden esophoria and resulting accomodation insufficiency of both eyes. I have been given a short term solution of glasses that work in similar way as an orthesis would work for your arm or leg, and I will undergo a lengthy (6 months) visual therapy to retrain muscles that control my eye movement.

The glasses fix about 1/3 of an issue and are really more of a "cane for my eyes" than a solution. You cannot run with a cane, but you can walk. And as the metaphor goes, it decreased my symptoms from very bad migraines from these new displays (that were triggered sometimes only by 15 minutes of exposure) to a milder headache and discomfort that builds up over longer period of time. When the visual therapy is finished, the problem might be solved completely as well.

I am working with a researcher in this field and this is all a very new theme and topic, however it seems that some specific way new displays, drivers, OS, backlighting or all together create the image, it triggers hidden eye issues that before were no problem

for most. Studies are being made and some people are taking interest in this (VR being a whole another issue thats gonna trigger other problems as well), but its a slow process, as many either end up with a psychosomatic diagnosis (labeled as mentally ill) and give up trying to solve this, or they have different and individual issues (vertigo instead of migraine for example).

I recommed you try to find a good optometrist and get your ability to properly use binocular vision checked. One person already mentioned they had convergence issues and therapy solved it, for me it seems to be the way to go too so far, so it might be a first step to take and either move on or discard this possibility for yourself. In my country there are only about 2 people who can measure this properly, so dont get discouraged if you cannot find someone fast.

Hopefully this will get more attention in the coming time and all of us wont lose our computer-dependent jobs.

EDIT: I live in Europe, but if you are from USA you might find this useful - http://visionsource-olmospark.com/vertigodizziness-testing/ Vertigo/Dizziness Testing http://visionsource-olmospark.com/neurolenses/ Neurolenses – Optometrist, Eye Doctor in San Antonio, TX | Vision Source Olmos Park

[JSilv24]

I wanted to post a discovery that I've made.

This is an interesting thread, especially the notion that the version of intel drivers might make a difference to eyestrain. I have just replaced my X1 Carbon 1st-gen with an X1 Carbon 5th-gen (FHD) and I'm noticing using the machine does give me a headache - despite the apparent lack of PWM. On my old 1st-gen X1 Carbon I could have a comfortable experience by using full brightness to eliminate

PWM (and use software gamma to adjust the brightness down) but for the 5th-gen I've so far found no solution and i'm seriously considering selling the laptop.

I have found some interesting results with this page of LCD Test Images: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/inversion.php Inversion (pixel-walk) - Lagom LCD test

These test for flicker-patterns in the screen unrelated to PWM. Apparently, LCD pixels need to be inverted between positive and negative polarity many times a second, and this does produce flicker as there is a difference in brightness between positive and negative. To minimise the overall effect, some pixels switch to positive whilst other pixels switches to negative. The images on the above page contain various dot-patterns that highlight the inversion process - depending on the layout/pattern of the pixels that invert together.

I've tested 5 screens with this - and all of them have horrible flicker on at least one test pattern. (Gives me a headache after just a few seconds!) I use Chrome in fullscreen mode (F11) for maximum effect.

The interesting thing is that on my X1 Carbon 5th gen, i've been able to alter the results by tweaking drivers.

I run Linux (Ubuntu 18.04) and if I edit /etc/default/grub and comment out this default line:

# GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash"

and replace it with:

GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash i915.modeset=0 i915.enable_dc=0 i915.enable_rc6=0 i915.enable_fbc=0 i915.panel_use_ssc=0 i915.alpha_support=0 i915.enable_ips=0 i915.enable_dpcd_backlight=0"

I get a reduction reduction in pixel-inversion flicker! I think the key setting above is actually i915.modeset=0 (I haven't tested them all individually to know if the others do anything at all). I believe i915.modeset=0 actually causes Ubuntu to use the old intel framebuffer driver.

It has been mentioned earlier in this thread that the intel framebuffer driver does help under Linux, and old intel drivers can help under Windows, but I thought it was useful to share that there was an observable and testable outcome of this change - as the other reports were purely subjective.

I hope that knowing the above will help Roland and intel understand the nature of at least this one aspect of the problem, and perhaps an improvement can be made to the drivers to minimise the impact of pixel inversion (or "pixel walk").

I haven't run with i915.modeset=0 for very long so it's a little too soon to see whether it will make my new laptop comfortable to use for me. But it sounds like it might help for some people.

(Btw, on my 5th gen X1 Carbon, I noticed no difference between running on battery power or mains power when testing with these Inversion paterns).

[RSmit23]

Hi gen0,

Please update us if that GRUB configuration helped your eyestrain. Also, does that configuration decrease performance at all?

-Ryan

[ht]

I tried this GRUB alteration and it wouldn't boot to the desktop...just the command line with huge pixelated characters. I had to change it back in Nano. Just using the i915.modeset=0" resulted in a very slow desktop that scanned from top to bottom with each action taken. Changing drivers to fbdev,vga etc in xorg.conf had no effect either but to break something somewhere. Any of thse combos that resulted in a desktop (KDE Plasma in my case on KDE Neon) didn't change my eye strain problem. Tried this on battery only as well and no difference. I had high hopes disabling itnel drivers would help since some peopld said it did. I'm feeling screwed as I cannot work and cannot survive with any modern LED display and no laptops can be had without.

[JSilv24]

The modeset=0 definitely decreases performance. A lot. I also had problems with resume-from-hibernate but a cold-boot was OK.

I did find an alternate GRUB configuration that did still seem to reduce the 'flicker' on the LCD test images but didn't carry the same performance hit. I don't have that laptop with me right now but I will post this when I get a moment, in case it's of use.

Unfortunately, these changes did not seem to reduce my eyestrain to any great degree. I've tried in dark places, full sunlight, and with the screen dimmed or at 100% brightness. I've unfortunately resigned myself to having to sell this otherwise beautiful laptop. I did some digging under /sys/devices/pci.../drm/card0/card0-eDP1/edid and found I can confirm this laptop (X1 Carbon 5th Gen FHD) had an AU Optronics display (AUO B140HAN03.1). It is frustrating, as these AU Optronics displays are widely regarded as the/devices better ones in Lenovo's "Display Lottery". LaptopMedia report this as a "PWM Safe" display: http://laptopmedia.com/screen/auo-b140han03-2/ http://laptopmedia.com/screen/auo-b140han03-2/

Out of desperation, I have bought a used X1 Yoga 2016 with a WQHD IPS Display - even though I've always disliked reflective/glass displays. This display also appears to be PWM-free, but the display is made by LG (LG LP140QH). I haven't had a chance to use this at length to really test how it is on my eyes/headaches, but my initial impression is that it's similar to the G5 Carbon though seems at least to be better on darker colours.

I'm worried I might need to just go back to my 1st-gen X1 Carbon and put up with the fact that with the brightness at 100% I only get 70 minutes of battery. I'm also starting to wonder if my discomfort is not caused by the panel but the light-spectrum of the backlight or perhaps something else (radio transmitters in the device or something) as I'm really at a loss to explain this.

[JSilv24]

Quick update - the current GRUB configuration on my X1C G5 laptop is:

GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash acpi_osi=Linux i915.panel_use_ssc=0 i915.dpst=0 i915.enable_psr=0"

This in my tests with the LCD Test Images seemed to perform the same as i915.modeset=0 (ie, reduced flicker) but without the performance/stability issues. Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to be the cause of my discomfort with this laptop as I still find I have eyestrain, but it did seem to reduce the "pixel walk" flicker and maybe this will help someone.

EDIT: I also tried the KDE Neon LiveCD - neon-useredition-20180809-1024-amd64.iso - after noticing that a friend of mine with the same laptop but running KDE Neon had vastly reduced flicker on the "pixel walk" LCD Test Images at http://www.lagom.nl/ http://www.lagom.nl. This is still based on Ubuntu 16.04, and also seemed to dramatically reduce this flicker artifact on my own Lenovo X1C G5.

[Bryce__Intel · Accepted solution]

All,

Apologies for the length in the time since our last update. In the elapsed time we've completed extensive and thorough testing of the issue you've reported to us. We sought external testing to ensure we weren't overlooking anything and to ensure unbiased results. We've worked with some of you individually, testing the actual platforms you're reporting the issue on with the specific drivers you claim are causing an issue. User Kray_62 sent us his system and we sent the unit and the drivers with & without perceived issues (version 2476 & 3347 respectively) to a 3rd party test lab [TUV Rheinland] who conducts eye comfort certification on visual displays. TUV tested various factors like luminance, color, flicker, and blue light. TUV's test results concluded no measurable difference between the drivers on neither internal nor external displays. Not to say there isn't a perceived issue, but without measurable differences between drivers, there is no objective way to resolve the issue. We have reached the end of our investigation and will be closing this issue.

.:Bryce:.